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May 11, 2004

Sometimes The Abyss Looks Back

Funny, all of a sudden I don't give a shit about naked Iraqi prisoners.

I don't suppose Al-Qaeda will conduct an official investigation of prisoner mistreatment by its troops after this, now will it?

Posted by Bigwig at May 11, 2004 03:19 PM | TrackBack
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Posted by: Jim at May 11, 2004 03:20 PM

So that's our standard? "Not quite as bad as al-Qaeda"? Yeah, THAT marketing campaign is gonna have legs ....

Posted by: Lex at May 11, 2004 04:22 PM

Come on Lex. You are comparing misguided prisoner interogation to a broadcast murder. al-qaeda has given the Iraqi prisoner story the perspective it needed. Last time I heard those Iraqi prisoners were still alive...

Posted by: Andy at May 11, 2004 05:26 PM

Andy, you must not have been hearing/reading some of the reports that I've been hearing and reading. From my understanding, there are investigations into the deaths of more than a handful of prisoners.

And bear in mind that many of the Iraqi detainees that appear in the photos that we've all seen were apparently innocents off the street and guilty of nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Posted by: kehaar at May 11, 2004 06:06 PM

I dunno. The lesson here, I think, is that the U.S. has an out-of-order military unit, it convenes a couple investigations, starts courts martial proceedings (then the press breaks the big scandal story) and looks to dole out justice to the perpetrators.

Our enemies find some excuse they can seize on to stoke their hate (doesn't matter what it is, anything is sufficient to stoke their hate), commit a brutal crime against the American Jew-Pig Dogs, videotape it, and scream "death to all who disagree with us."

While I don't think this excuses those of our troops who are out of line, I believe it puts the outrage over the outrage into perspective.

Posted by: Blackavar at May 11, 2004 06:19 PM

The guy that killed Berg is the one Bush did not go after before he invaded Iraq...and obviously he failed to get him afterward, either.

If Bush were busy catching al-Quaeda, Berg might still be alive. But noooooooo -- Saddam was more important.

US citizens who torture should be landed on like the wrath of God under the rule of law. Al Quaeda should just be exterminated like the vermin they are.

Posted by: Scorpio at May 11, 2004 07:29 PM


Ought we to take them out and summarily shoot them? Or perhaps have the Malachites smite them mightily? Or drown them in a flood lasting 40 days?

I agree the Americans have to be punished. Other than the fact that the rogue troops have fucked up the political situation, I have a hard time summoning up the severe case of the ass everybody else has about this. It's war, bad things happen, you punish the miscreants, the nation drives on, get over it.

Far worse things, in terms of individual results, happen at the sharper end of the stick, where soldiers make the 50/50 decision to take prisoners (a dangerous choice) or just drill them to be on the safe side.

Posted by: Blackavar at May 11, 2004 08:54 PM


Posted by: HokiePundit at May 11, 2004 10:37 PM

as a kid growing up i would on occassion say, "but so-and-so did it too." and my parents would always reply, "i don't care what they do, i care about what you do."

other then hunting them down and bringing them in, there's nothing much we can do about terrorists, serial killers and murderers.

we, on the other hand, have far greater control over the actions we take. and we should make sure we do so.

Posted by: kevin lyda at May 12, 2004 04:37 AM

What the iraqis need is the kind of treatment that Pres Hafez-al-Assad meted out to al-qaeda style clowns in the city of Hama in the early 1980s. What Assad's troops did was they destroyed the city of Hama - bombarded them back to the snone ages, and guess what, al-Qaeda, and Muslim Brotherhood types havent bothered to cause trouble in Syria since. Probably, that is what the American response to the initial incident in Fallujah ought to have been, after the 4 civilian contractors were lynched.

Posted by: ronin at May 12, 2004 09:10 AM

Oh, I suppose Al-Qaeda will investigate this about the same time the UN Human Rights Commission will condemn it.

In other words, don't hold your breath.

Posted by: Captain Holly at May 12, 2004 09:36 AM

Trolls, dimwits and assembled assholery,

The difference lays not in scope, type, or victim status. The guilt or innocence of those the foulness is perpetrated upon is, for this point at least, irrelevent.

The difference is that we see what was done, by both our own people and those islamists as wrong, and we will punish those of ours that commited those acts of abuse.

The islamists will not be punished by ANY muslims. They will be celebrated as heroes. Their video will vie only with Daniel Perl's for best video release of whatever year they say it is.

Our criminals will be jailed.

I know this simple truth will matter not one whit to you bastions of ignorance. But it comforts those of us who are sane to know, and say it.

Posted by: jacks at May 12, 2004 11:40 AM

Yo Jacks - what in the comments made previous to yours leads you to call us all names? Idont think you advance your cause by calling others trolls, dimwits and assholes!!!

Posted by: sid at May 12, 2004 05:34 PM

My SO points out that the "torture" was basic fraternity hazing.

As far as "humiliation" goes, they are an honor-based culture....

Posted by: Andy Freeman at May 13, 2004 12:17 AM

So Andy, what is your SO saying? That the detainees are now members in good standing of the Sigma Eff Yu fraternity?

Posted by: Blackavar at May 13, 2004 12:37 AM

My SO's point is that this abuse and humiliation isn't all that big a deal.

Where would Blackavar put this on the list of Iraqi priorities? Why and what else is on the list? Is it akin to Augusta National not having any women members?

I prefer to look at it from a different angle. I want to know the effect of "If we piss off the Americans, they will put us in jail, strip us, paint us green, pile us up, and some American hussy will laugh and put pictures on the Internet."

Yes, some folks will be pissed, but how many of the relevant population weren't pissed already?

Posted by: Andy Freeman at May 13, 2004 11:21 AM
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