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July 02, 2003

Unseen History

Holocaust deniers like David Irving have always had a hard time with my family. The idea that the Holocaust didn't happen, or that its extent was exaggerated was always considered lunacy. We had proof, you see.

Not that we're Jewish, or lost anyone in the camps. The closest we ever got to a connection of that sort (before my middle brother married above himself) was the lady who lived beside us when I was a child, and whose lawn I mowed for pocket money during my teenage years.

I never knew her as anything other than Dr. Blumenfeld. She was a professor at the college, a sad women who lived alone with only a Dachshund for company. As best as I remember she came to America from Germany in the thirties, and most if not all of the family she left behind perished.

For the most part I never thought of her. As a child I remember being scared of her. As a teenager I initially resented her, for she was very precise in her instructions when it came to mowing her lawn, then uncomfortable and nervous around her, as if she were a hideous cripple who had gotten into a too-small elevator with me.

The reasons my attitude changed were found in the back of a large metal Army Surplus filing cabinet, one of a number bought by Louisburg College in the late 1970's, presumably because they were cheap. It's one of the oldest junior colleges in America, but it's always suffered from financial troubles. It was given to my father, who stuck it in a corner of his office and ignored it for months.

In the bottom of the filing cabinet, stuck beneath the drawer were 20 black and white photos from World War II, mostly of piles of bodies. Some had this message stamped in red on the back;

Must be returned to
Office of War Information
Picture Division Library
224 West 57th Street
New York, N.Y.

Others had this ominous message;


All had descriptions glued to the back, usually a general overview of the circumstances in which the picture was taken, followed by a specific description of the picture contents. My father happened upon them the day he finally decided to use the heavy metal beast the administration had crammed into his office.

As best as we tell they have never been published anywhere. I remembered them when I first started this site, but could never get past the feeling that exhibiting them here was something akin to inviting people to come down to the local 7-11 for a Guernica showing.

The environment still doesn't feel right, but I decided a week or so ago while looking for a particular Will Rogers speech that withholding information from the Internet was as close to a electronic sin as one can get. Also, the photo and descriptions are aging rapidly, despite the acid free folders they've been stored in over the last 25 years, and I thought it best to put the photos and descriptions into a more accessible digital form before turning the lot over to a organization better equipped to care for them.

I never apologized to Dr. Blumenfeld for my attitudes towards her before she died. I don't know that I could have found the words to express the awkwardness I felt around her without giving offense at that age. I can only hope that she didn't notice. I think Dad may have shown these to her at one point. I don't care to think how painful that must have been for both of them.

Perhaps I can redress some small part of that wrong I did as a child to the good Doctor by posting the pictures. Given the present day situation in the Middle East, and the rising tides of an all too familiar anti-Semitism in parts of the progressive movement, perhaps they might also serve as a caution, of a fresh reminder of what happened the last time the West abandoned the children of Israel.


I'll post one or two a day; it takes time to scan them, research the backstory and transcribe the descriptions. I'll endeavor to keep each at the top of the site for most of each day.

The first two pictures are from Ohrdruf, one of the satellite labor camps associated with Buchenwald, and the first to be liberated by western forces.

On April 12, 1945, Ohrdruf was visited by Generals Eisenhower, Bradley and Patton. The Generals viewed piles of bodies, implements of torture, and a butcher's block used to smash gold fillings from teeth, among other sights. Patton became ill and reportedly refused to visit the punishment shed. As the tour progressed, Eisenhower's mood turned increasingly grim. As recounted by Abzug, Patton's aide Charles Codman described an encounter between Eisenhower and a G.I., when the soldier accidentally bumped into a Nazi ex-guard and giggled nervously: "General Eisenhower fixed him with a cold eye, and when he spoke, each word was like the drop off an icicle. 'Still having trouble hating them,' he said."


Following is the general description found on each of the Ohrdruf pictures. I've kept the mispellings, and added links where I can to more information. The specific descriptons, as well as any other information on a photo, appear beneath each.


The swift advance of the Third U.S. Army's famous Fourth Armored uncovered the horror of a Nazi SS murder camp at Ohrdruf, entered April 4, 1945, after the fall of Gotha, eight miles to the north. American soldiers who seized the camp found the courtyard littered with the bodies of Czechoslovakian, Russian, Belgian and French slave laborers, slain because they were too weak to be evacuated. In a shed, they found a stack of 44 naked and lime-covered bodies.

According to survivors, 3,000 to 4,000 prisoners had been killed by SS troops, 70 being slain just before the Americans reached the camp. The 80 survivors had escaped death or removal by hiding in the woods. They reported that an average 150 died daily, mainly from shooting or clubbing. The Nazi system was too feed prisoners a crust of bread a day, work them on tunnelling until they were too weak to continue, then exterminate them and replace them with another 150 prisoners daily.

Led by Colonel Hayden Sears of the Fourth Armored Division, prominent German citizens of the town of Ohrdruf saw with their own eyes the horrors of SS brutality during a conducted tour of the Ohrdruf charnel house April 8, 1945. As they stood over the slain prisoners, Colonel Sears said: "This is why Americans cannot be your friends..." The enforced tour of the Germans ended with a visit to a wood where 10 bodies lay on a grill, made of railway lines, ready for cremation. Colonel Sears asked a uniformed German medical officer: "Does this meet with your conception of the German master race?" The officer faltered and at last answered: "I cannot believe that Germans did this."

Click on picture for a larger version.

BIPPA EA 61491
THIS PHOTO SHOWS: These prisoners were too ill from lack of food and unsanitary conditions to move when the Fourth Armored Division approached the Ohrdruf camp, so the Germans shot them and left them.
U.S. Signal Corps Photo ETO-HQ-45-30885
The number "11097' has been stamped in blue ink on the back of the photo. Beside the number is a set of initials in red pencil. Lcr, or Fcr, perhaps.

Click on picture for a larger version.

S & G 61330
THIS PHOTO SHOWS: A closeup of the bodies of prisoners massacred and piled together. Their bodies bear the marks of Nazi brutality. British Combine - Acme Photo F from Sport and General.

The number "11304' has been stamped in blue ink on the back of the photo. Beside the number is a set of initials in red pencil. Lcr, or Fcr, perhaps.

Notes: Another picture of this atrocity, taken from a different angle.

This post has been edited for grammar.

The second post in this series can be seen here.

Posted by Bigwig at July 2, 2003 01:11 AM | TrackBack
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Thanks for the words about Dr. Blumenfeld. I believe she would have appreciated the apology--though I'm not sure. She was always difficult to read, and you should feel no guilt in regards to your fear of her or discomfort in her presence. She inspired those feelings in all who met her. A couple of corrections: The filing cabinet was in your father's office from the beginning of his tenure at the college in 1967. It must have been purchased right after the war, and not necessarily by the college. The former office resident might have done so. Your dad used the cabinet from the beginning and found the photos only when the drawers were removed so that the cabinet could be moved to his new office some time in the late 70's or early 80's. The file folder was under the bottom drawer, left there by the military since the waning days of the war in Europe. Dad still has the cabinet.

Posted by: yomamma at July 2, 2003 10:44 AM

Thanks for your efforts in bringing this new information to the web. If I were German, I too would prefer not to believe these atrocities were committed by my countrymen.

Posted by: Indigo at July 2, 2003 11:44 AM


I see the "stop showing the WTC falling video" folks have history on their side.

Posted by: Andy Freeman at July 2, 2003 11:55 AM

You can probably donate them to a Holocaust museum. If you don't have one locally, there are the two biggies: the Washington Holocaust Museum, and Steven Speilberg's Shoah foundation.

I can get you the numbers, or you can get them from the websites.

Posted by: Meryl Yourish at July 2, 2003 12:12 PM

Thanks for posting the photos, and for deciding to undertake the preservation of an important historical record.

One of my great uncles was with the 101st Airborne in WWII. He was involved in liberating a prison camp at or near the Dachau complex. I only knew him as a serious older man; family members said that the things he saw there changed him more than anything else in the war.

The holocaust itself was indescribably horrid; the bigger enormity, to me, is our inability to recognize genocidal evil and to do something about it.

The complete inability to condem monsters like Stalin, and the present trend of Castro and Chinese oligarch hugging, very nearly sickens me. Yeah, it's not aimed specifically at Jews, but it' just as bad. A monster is a monster.

It's important to keep alive the memory of what happened in Germany, so that we all know that the line between man, the noble being, and man, the beast, is a thin one that we could easily cross if we aren't vigilant. Either human rights are a universal and transcendant value, or they aren't. If they are, then toppling tyrants and stopping genocide in places like Africa isn't merely justified, it's morally mandatory.

Please keep showing the pictures. We need reminding.

Posted by: Omnibus Bill at July 2, 2003 12:30 PM

It's really hard to look Evil in the eyes like that. But thanks for posting the pictures.

Posted by: Keith at July 2, 2003 03:51 PM

Thank you for what you are doing.

Posted by: AG in Houston at July 2, 2003 05:21 PM

Thank you so much for going through all the effort to display these photos.

This is all especially necessary given that Holocaust denier Abu Mazen, the palistinian prime minister hand picked by Arafat, has been invited to the White House.

If ever there was a reason for Israel to have just a tiny sliver of the middle east for Jews to be secure in, these photos demonstrate so without the need for words.

Posted by: UziDoesIt at July 2, 2003 05:25 PM

I am not Jewish, and I am not German.
And I am not G-D. The perpetrators had better be glad that I am not G-D, because they would never be able to repay the price for this completely horrendous crime.
I would be forever raining hell fire on their heads.

Posted by: anonreader at July 2, 2003 05:47 PM

Wow. These are disturbing. We must never forget.

Posted by: Lively at July 2, 2003 05:57 PM

Unfortunately, monsters still roam the earth.

Posted by: Paladin at July 2, 2003 06:07 PM

Bigwig and Bigwig's Mom,

Thank you for showing us this and all the information. We must remembrer.

Posted by: Steve White at July 2, 2003 06:28 PM

Thank you for the history lesson, and the reminder.

Whatever the "noble" goal, be it a Thousand Year Reich or a Socialist Worker's Paradise (same thing, Hitler was a Socialist), when people who believe "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" are given power this is what happens.

Posted by: Greg at July 2, 2003 06:36 PM

And they wonder why the Jews need a state, a modern army and nuclear weapons...

NEVER again.

Posted by: Colt at July 2, 2003 06:54 PM

Well and properly done, Bigwig. Publish them here, but make sure these get passed along to the Museums as well.

Posted by: Andrew at July 2, 2003 07:51 PM

Here's my start. It'll get better. Thank you for allowing me to post them.

Posted by: Chuck at July 2, 2003 09:20 PM

I live 2 miles from the Simon Wiesenthal Center and know many people who work there. Let me know if you'd like me to help.

Forward these to Pat Buchanan, too. He's never defended anyone who wasn't accused of being a Nazi.

Posted by: Aaron's Rantblog at July 2, 2003 10:20 PM

Yeah, they got trouble with my family too.

April, 1945.
My father, Lt. Russell Eldon Lassey.
Camp Mittelbau-Dora.
Nordhausen, Germany.

In these enlightened times he would have gotten "help" for Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. As it was, he just had to deal with it. He dealt with it by cultivating a deep and pure hatred for National Socialists and their ilk. It seems to be passed genetically, since I will also carry that hatred to the grave and beyond.

I know you don't often find "hatred" and "pure" juxtaposed.

There are situations though where hatred is the only correct reaction. Anything less serves to embrace the evil.

Check it out:

Posted by: Stephen Lassey at July 2, 2003 10:28 PM

Although the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC and the one in New York are good recipients for prints of these photos, the originals should go to Yad V'Shem, the first and original remembrance of the Shoah (Holocaust)in Jerusalem, the Jewish capital of Israel.

And of course the germans should get copies, printed next to the glory that is Israel and the decadence that is still their culture.

Posted by: Ethel at July 2, 2003 11:51 PM

There but for the Grace of Go go I . . .
tears . . . . .

Posted by: Ralph Katzenell at July 3, 2003 02:46 AM

Thank you for making sure history is preserved and remembered.

I can't find words to express my feelings. I weep and wish I had been there to fight for and save these poor souls. I thank the soldiers who were alive then and fought the Nazis. I recoil in horror at these images, and tremble at the thought of such evil bestiality. I resolve to fight evil as long as my heart keeps beating. And I remember the 9/11 massacre.

Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever) at July 3, 2003 05:33 AM

Thanks for putting those on the web. With the disappearance of the last survivors, a mean and dirty battle to discredit the history of the holocaust will surely ensue. Things like this get the civilized world ready.

Posted by: Joe at July 3, 2003 06:15 AM

Thank you for posting the photos, but I would like to correct some of the comments above. Hitler was no socialist. He exterminated about 250,000 members of the Socialist Party. He also exterminated gay people, gypsies and disabled Germans.

Secondly, standing up for human rights is well and good but think locally. The death penalty is still legal in many parts of the US.

Thirdly, while I am for a Jewish state on balance, I have a lot of problems with modern Israel. She does not need nuclear weapons, and many countries do well without them. Her belligerent attitude towards her neighbours does her no favours either. To have learnt from the Holocaust, Israel must remember that using military force to solve political problems only leads to hatred.

Posted by: Larry Lurex at July 3, 2003 07:29 AM

And then there are the people who *need* reminding, but find it inconvenient to see.

Who said this?

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

I wonder if anyone would claim that Stalin's purges meant he was far-Right, as he killed Bolsheviks?

And then there's always someone who's willing to (always indirectly at first) suggest "what Israel is doing is just as bad as the Holocaust". You should be ashamed.

If your political problem is that you're surrounded by countries that all wish to see you exterminated, and that those countries are willing to viciously mistreat their own people in order to set those people up to be a weapon against you (look very carefully at what Jordan did with the West Bank)... then reasonable self-defense suggests certain military measures.

Posted by: Greg at July 3, 2003 07:59 AM

"Her belligerent attitude towards her neighbours does her no favours either. To have learnt from the Holocaust, Israel must remember that using military force to solve political problems only leads to hatred."

Frankly are an idiot. What "military force" did the people in those pictures use that led to their being hated and eventual extermination? Rather, if they had military force it may have prevented their extermination.
Israel's belligerent attitue toward her neighbours??? How should they feel about their friendly neighbours who have vowed and tried repeatedly to wage war on them and exterminate them in an atempt to reproduce these pictures?
Oh , I understand...its their own fault for being jewish and heaven forbid they defend themselves...

Posted by: Dan R at July 3, 2003 08:43 AM

Larry, you said: "She does not need nuclear weapons, and many countries do well without them."

How many of those countries that do well without them are surrounded by countries that want to destroy them, are outnumbered by a huge number, and regularly have members of its populace blown up by terrorists?

Many countries DO do well without nukes. I'm not sure that Israel needs them m'self, but surely her situation isn't the same as, say, Canada. Or Mexico. Or Switzerland. I surely don't BEGRUDGE them their nuclear weapons.

You also said "think locally. The death penalty is still legal in many parts of the US."

Yes, true. This is apropos of what? Considering that the death penalty is applied after a fully LEGAL trial, that 99% of the time is fair as well, I have a hard time comparing that to the contents of Bigwig's photos. Or are you trying to make some OTHER point? Like the "Israel is violating civil rights of Palistinians" argument? Or what?

Posted by: Wonderduck at July 3, 2003 09:41 AM

I suppose that Larry would favor life in prison for the main perpetrators of the Holocaust instead of execution. Sorry, but when a crime is unusually cruel and heinous as in this case, to not execute the criminal is unjust and unmerciful to the victims.

The "enlightened" pseudointellectuals look down on nations that still execute murderers and consider themselves so civilized. But tell me, is it just or civilized for a cold-blooded murderer to sit in prison with 3 squares a day with the opportunity to receive letters and visits from friends and family while his/her victims can do nothing but lie in their graves? The murdered will never get to see their friends and family in this life, enjoy a meal, touch someone else, or listen to a beautiful piece of music.

Mercy must not rob justice.

BTW, thanks for publishing these pictures. We must never forget.

Posted by: iagofest at July 3, 2003 10:21 AM

To think that there are people who want to deny that any of this ever happened is absolutely sick and disgusting. I suppose the Germans would like us all to believe those photos were faked? You have done a very considerate thing, by posting those pictures you have allowed the dead a voice and a way to be heard again. Thank you.

Posted by: AW at July 3, 2003 10:35 AM

Thank you.

Posted by: Elena at July 3, 2003 10:54 AM

Never forget!

Larry Lurex - only because of the weapons Israel possesses above pictures won't re-occur (i.e. being led helplessly to slaughter).

Posted by: Tsedek at July 3, 2003 11:18 AM

Larry Lurex says..."Israel must remember that using military force to solve political problems only leads to hatred."

What if France and Britain had decided to use military force to solve a political problem, at the time of Germany's Rhineland incursion (1936)? The historical evidence is that the German army would have collapsed, followed rapidly by the Hitler regime? Would this have led to more "hatred" in Germany? More than was already present? Would it have been worth it to avoid WWII and the Holocaust?

Posted by: David Foster at July 3, 2003 11:55 AM

To Larry Lurex, and others of his persuasion--Hitler was certainly not a capitalist and had said (and did) much against capitalists; his documented antipathy towards Stalinist communism is his sole redeeming feature, though it had more to do with power politics than political economic differences. I'd call him a down-the-middle socialist for the day.

He killed hundreds of thousands of socialists, to be certain. But then he killed hundreds of thousands of Austrians too.....does that make him less Austrian?

Your other statement, regarding the solving of political differences by force, is a howler. Let's lay aside Mr. Machiavelli's truism for a second though.

To wit: the different sides of the abortion debate in the U.S., or the difference between the democrats and republicans in the U.S. are political differences. The problems between the EU and the US are political.

What the Arabs have tried to do with Israel is not. It is most certainly amenable to a military solution. Numerous, Sovereign Arab states have tried to annihilate the State--a chartered one according to the U.N.--three seperate times. They actively sponsor the most hideous terrorist regimes-- via financing and extension of diplomatic cover--seen in global history.

Name a treaty that has been obeyed by a sovereign Arab state in respect to Israel. Name one. You can't, because there arent any. Egypt in the Camp David accords is perhaps the closest, but there indifference to terrorism clearly violates the spirit of the law.

Posted by: rod boyd at July 3, 2003 12:56 PM

Thanks for posting these. The Holocaust was terrible, sure, however, that still doesn't give the "Israelis" the right to be where they are, uprooting the Palestinians.

Think about it; This isn't the Israel you're prophecied to inherit; You do not have the high priesthood, the ark of the covenant, or the temple. How can you say this is the place?

Remember that prophecies are self fulfilling, especially when human greed is involved. Be mindful that during your battles with monsters, you become not a monster yourself.

...Just my two cents.

Posted by: Visigothan at July 3, 2003 01:00 PM

I suspect there are many more photos still buried in files elsewhere. Several years ago I was asked to retrieve some photos from the Army archives of the 45th Division, and while digging through the folders found several images taken at the time of the liberation of Dachau... one of them showed the initial reactions on the former camp guards faces in response to the tables being turned, while former inmates (in striped uniforms) pointed out various German officers to American soldiers. Situation looked very tense, as if the American GI's might even open fire.

Posted by: tom at July 3, 2003 03:52 PM

Thanks for posting these photos.

To Larry Lurex and Visigothan - There is a time and a place for your anti-Zionist rants and this is not it. To see a photo like this and discuss your repulsive beliefs that Jews should not be able to defend themselves in the fashion that any other nation can speaks of such a depravity in your soul, such pure hatred of everything Jewish, that one can only wonder, after it consumes you, if your heart will be black with this pure hatred when your time finally comes.

Let me address your "points":
1) Larry, nukes: There's evidence to suggest that Israel's nuclear deterrence has prevented attacks and may have shortened the Yom Kippur War. Besides that, living in the neighborhood where they do, where there are millions seeking to kill them quite actively, there can be no doubt that nuclear weapons are a sheer necessity.
2) Larry, belligerence: Israel is the most peace-loving country in its region. Imagine if Israel laid down all of its weapons. What would happen? Now imagine if the Arabs laid down all of their weapons. What would happen? Besides the obvious contrast, Israel has been attacked repeatedly by Arabs; you'd expect the reverse if Israel were belligerent.
3) Larry, military solving problems: Yes, perhaps if Israel just surrendered you could find a Final Solution to the Jewish problem. [/sarcasm] Many solutions have military components; denying Israel the right to have a military component to how it solves problems is tantamount to saying that Jews should not defend themselves and just jump into the ovens. Particularly on the heels of these horrible photos, this is a repulsive viewpoint.
4) Visigothan, "The Holocaust was terrible, sure": Umm, could you find a way to more quickly minimize how terrible it was?
5) Visigothan, Israel's right to exist: Israel's right to exist has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Like any other country, a group of people banded together and successfully fended off other groups. That's Israel's right to exist. There is also a little bit of UN documentation to back Israel's existence, unlike almost any other country. You don't need to put qoutes around Israelis; unlike palestinians, they come from a country that definitely exists.
6) Visigothan, uprooting the palestinians: Most of the Arabs who lived in Israel left voluntarily as the Arab armies marched on the Jews; the Arab armies promised them the wealth and land of the Jews. Slightly more Jews were involuntarily uprooted from Arab countries, including one half of my family, with no justification whatsoever. And there weren't Israeli armies in Morocco telling the Jews to get out so that the Israeli army could march forward.
7) Visigothan, how we know it's the place: Jerusalem is still in the same place as it always was. There's the wailing wall. Tons of architecture. We don't need a priesthood; in any case, I believe you have your silly assumptions mixed up (though to be fair, this is typical of the rest of your dreck) - Jews did not need an ark of the covenant to re-form Israel.
8) Visigothan, Israel a monster: Israel is the nation the least close to ever being a monster. They treat the palestinians with kid gloves, as you would realize if you thought of a palestinian exploding a schoolbus in your neighborhood, in whatever benighted country you live in.

Posted by: Ariel at July 3, 2003 08:01 PM

Of course the German officer could not believe that "Germans would do these things."

Governments work very very hard to keep the piles of dead bodies away from their citizens. And they work very very hard to keep them in war zones, and the population terrified through war or threats of terror.

They always have. They always will. Until we all recognize that, if we do not watch every minute of our lives, there will be piles of dead -- American Native, Black slave, Congolese, German, Jewish, Japanese, Russian, Iraqi, Palestinian, the list goes on and on -- and they will always be hidden by secrecy, war and terrorism.

So get off your dead butts and start demanding that ALL your governments stop committing this kind of crap!

Posted by: Donna Barr at July 3, 2003 10:02 PM

I think most people will find the "all governments are as bad as the Nazis" argument unconvincing.

Posted by: bigwig at July 3, 2003 10:18 PM

It's not "all governments are as bad as the Nazi's", it's "nothing about the Nazi's was unique, nothing about them isn't also found in us, and assuming our government couldn't commit autrocities is the surest way to give them a clear path to do just that".

Posted by: Mike at July 3, 2003 10:23 PM

We must never forget what happened and those idiots who try to say it never happened truly disgust me.

Posted by: Denis at July 3, 2003 11:41 PM

Thank you for this step in an ongoing effort.

Since the beginning of America's legitimate military efforts in response to 9/11, I've been moved to increase my efforts in defense of the freedoms we often take for granted, but which history shows (! posted here !) can be taken away, mercilessly!

We're in a long struggle, a long war, and the military part is one part of it, but the day-to-day defense and clarification and explanation of America, and her high ideals, and her real efforts at justice... needs to be acknowledged by the peace-loving amongst us, the courageous amongst us, and the far-seeing amongst us.

Yes, the 'don't play WTC falling' folks want to hush it up, then pretend it never happened, then fault America for efforts taken on behalf of the free and the downtrodden around the world.

Our motives are maligned, our goals are belittled, our efforts misinterpreted and our values demeaned.

For this, and for those pictured, and for those who've sacrificed property, limbs and life itself in pursuit of freedom, we must make our voices heard, with ration and reason and courtesy and courage!

Today is July 4th, 2003. If it is to have any good meaning, it must be ours to rekindle the fire of rational love which set the original American home-fires burning!

May God Bless America!

Posted by: Eye Opener at July 4, 2003 01:18 AM

Germany under Hitler was vile. Germany with its revisionist history has become vile again. Iraq under Hussain was vile. Wecan hope that our efforts there keep them from becouming vile again. with anti-semitism on the upswing again, many wonder why the Jewish people are starting to move politicly to the right in the USA. Do not wonder, but remember...We shall never forgive and never forget. Vile dictators and terrorist need to be stoped... Killed, and thier crimes shown to the world. If, like France and Germany, they will not look, then leave them on the trash heap of history. I shall never forgive and never forget, If they come for us in the night I SHALL FIGHT. So will my brother and all of our house unto the last generation.

Posted by: Chris at July 4, 2003 08:45 AM

That's Real Purty, Chris. How many of Hitler and Goebbels' speaches did you study to so perfectly capture their tone? The only difference between your rant and their rants are the names and the dates. The message of anger, hatred and retribution promised is the same.

Bigwig, thanks for posting these pictures. They are very disturbing and need to be shown. But they are not nearly as disturbing as the comments below them. Apparently people don't seem to get the message that atrocities are never, ever to be tolerated, even when committed by "friendly" nations.

Modern Germany is hardly the problem. Modern Germany's current spat with the United States comes from America wanting Germany to tear down part of the Holocaust Memorial Park in Berlin and give the land to the U.S. Embassy. Who is defiling the memory of the Holocaust in this case and who is upholding it?

Nazi Germany felt "justified" in massacring minorities during the Holocaust because of what they had suffered during the First World War and the Great Depression. America felt "justified" in massacring Native Americans because America could make "better" use of the land. Israel feels "justified" in massacring Palestinians and foreigners working for Peace because of what Jews suffered during the Holocaust, what Israelis suffered in the formative days of the Israeli state and because they can make "better" use of the land. Palestinians feel "justified" in massacring Israelis because of what they are suffering at the hands of the Israelis. Islamic extremists feel "justified" in massacring Americans because of what the Palestinians have suffered at the hands of the American-supported Israeli government. The U.S. feels "justified" in massacring Afghanis and Iraqis because of what we've suffered at the hands of Israeli extremists and because we can make "better" use of Iraqi oil. More Islamic extremists are going to feel "justified" to attack us because of what the Afghanis and Iraqis have suffered at our hands. As long as any of us feel "justified" to commit atrocities, atrocities will continue to occur.

Don't you people get it? This is the age of instant communciation. Every time somebody feels "justified" to reduce a group of people to a pile of corpses the rest of the world is going to see it, and even more people are going to become outraged and work against the other side. When They massacre Us, We feel even more "justified" to massacre Them. When We turn around and massacre Them back, even more of Them feel "justified" to massacre even more of Us. There's too many of Us, too many of Them and way the Hell too many guns and bombs for the cycle to stop before the death toll hits the millions again! We need justice, not justification. Justice has never come out of the barrel of a gun, only from dialogue and understanding.

The atrocities of the Second World War should never have happened. They could have been prevented if more people had listening to what other people were saying. Let's start working on preventing future atrocities by listening to what other people are saying today. Al Quaada is relying on Islamists becoming outraged by the action the Americans and the Israelis have felt "justified" to take against other Islamists and supporting Al Quaada or their affiliates. Let's not give Al Quaada any more recruiting posters, but instead work to understand and undermine the Islamic grievances against America and Israel that fuel the hate.

We can afford justice. We can't afford to give more young Islamic men and women the "justification" to set off even more bombs.

Posted by: Lioness at July 4, 2003 05:20 PM

..seen photos like this since I was a kid in the 70's. Abso-fucking-lootley disgusting. But necessary to remember. I am embarrassed to be a member of the species that did stuff like that. It is why I celebrate my Independence Day thanking God that my country, although faulted,as all people are, has not, to my knowledge, committed such acts.
Thanks for posting this and reminding the doubters...
( oh, and after reading my preview I had to add this: I just mentioned the 'my country' and 'Independence Day' stuff because it is my Nation's birthday, not as a slight to any German peoples..)

Posted by: Paul at July 4, 2003 05:30 PM

I dunno why you Americans are always going on about how you hate what Hitler did.

Lord knows your corporations handed him enough money to get started.

If you don't like this crap, why do you keep paying for it?

Posted by: Donna Barr at July 4, 2003 06:11 PM

Lets cut the moral relativism crap.
What Hilter and his evil minions did was of the worst evil ever committed.
Him and his ilk did not care who or what you were if he thought you were against him. You simply got carted off to a camp and if lucky died quickly.
Six million Jews and 5.5 million others died in over 660 assorted camps throughout the Thousand Year Reich. Anti-Semitism has been festering in Europe for centuries, as the massacre at Wurms shows or the Teutonic Knights. Only by confronting this history can the future be made better. To ignore is to encourage its return.
We should never forget what evil depths humans[yeah us] are capable of. May we always show our children this as an example of evil so they can learn not to do such.
As for history. 1947 UN mandate created two states in the former British possesion of Palestein. One for Israel and the other for the soon to be displaced Arabs. Instead of accepting a realpolik reality, all the countries around the new Israel attacked. They failed and furhter drove into the Israeli psyche that they must never lessen their vigilence.
Never forget the Shoah.

Posted by: Anna at July 4, 2003 07:07 PM

I thought "never forget" was supposed to mean "stop the killing", not "use this to justify even more killing." Justify your murders and They will justify murdering You. "Using this to justify more killing" has only gotten us into a bigger mess. Why don't we try "stopping the killing" instead?

Posted by: Lioness at July 4, 2003 07:30 PM

Actually "never forget" tends to mean "never forget". Sometimes killing is quite necessary.

Sorry if that disturbs your worldview.

Posted by: Patrick at July 4, 2003 08:37 PM

In the words of Chandler's wierd girlfriend on TV's "Friends", "OH...MY...GOD!!"
Are there really this many stupid, ignorant people populating this planet, that think that by minimising, ignoring, tolerating, excusing such atrocities committed by self-agrandizing megalomaniacs, that this stuff will stop?
Stupid and ignorant are too small, too meaningless words to describe these people. Associates, sympathisers, co-conspirators are words more suited to their description, for they encourage the suggestible among us to believe that these atrocities never happened, weren't as bad as portrayed, that loving these monsters is the only way to subdue them. WRONG!
"Vengance is mine," says the LORD, "I will repay" And he will use whom he pleases to do the repayment.
The Jews are surrounded on all sides by those who HATE them, yet you want them to lay down their defenses and hug their destroyers with open arms? I say to you, their arms should be LOCKED and LOADED, and pointed at the hearts of their enemies. And we in the USA, as (mostly) lovers of freedom, should be there with them, encouraging them, supplying them, assisting them. And GOD help us if we don't. (But, if we don't, he won't.)
On this July 4th, 2003, let us go back into our own history and review the real reasons (Not the current revisionist versions) that we fought for our own freedoms. And let us rediscover the real meanings (again, not the revisionist crap) behind our Constitution, and our Bill of Rights.
It is our duty as citizens of this great country to protect and defend the defenseless, and to rid this world of tyrrany. Yes, we ARE the greatest country on the face of the earth. Yes, we have done some things of which we are ashamed. However, unlike others, WE HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED our mistakes, we have asked forgiveness of our victims, we have attempted recompense. How many tyrants can say that?
And yes, we have the greedy among us still, the corporations that seek to benefit from any means available to them, the politicians that are part and parcel to this greed. BUT, that does not negate our responsibility to the rest of the world. And that does not mean that we have to rid ourselves of the wrong before we can do any right. And, that does not justify the philosophy of co-conspirators like Larry and Visigoth and others of their ilk.
Never forget, America, Never forget.

Posted by: Anthony Stephens at July 4, 2003 09:05 PM

Gee, when folks point out how much you guys sound like 1930's Nazis, you reply with posts that sound even MORE like 1930's Nazis.

Posted by: Lioness at July 5, 2003 10:32 AM

If you have something to contribute other than name calling, then please do so. Please offer thoughtful and reasoned arguments to support your position. Otherwise your antics will just cause everyone to tune you out.
'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' -MacBeth

Posted by: Anna at July 5, 2003 01:45 PM

What about my posts are you having trouble understanding Anna?

Posted by: Lioness at July 5, 2003 06:49 PM

Thanks for sharing in all its gruesomeness.

As to Larry Lurex and Visigothan: I read a quote the other day (sorry, I can't remember to give proper credit) that sums up the Israeli/Palestinian (or Arab) differences: Israel could wipe out the Palestinians, but won't; the Palestinians would wipe out the Israelis, but can't.

That's my 2 cents, FWIW.

Posted by: Xbalanke at July 6, 2003 09:23 PM

The part of your posts that I am having difficulty understanding is your minimizing of facts and willingness to ignore immense amounts of history and evidence to not have to change your worldview.

You try to say that our current problem with Germany is (the evil Americans) wanting (noble) Germany to tear down part of the Holocaust Memorial Park and give the land to the (evil American) U.S. Embassy. I know, you didn't write the ()'s parts, but you were sure as heck trying to imply them. You sum up with an attempt to paint America as the defiler of the Holocaust and so we should all ignore the Germans who want the world to forget that they perpetrated this unbelievable evil.

In this one paragraph, you ignore the buildup to the Gulf War II, where Germany actively worked against America reacting, pretending to be noble with France and stand for principle, while secretly selling prohibited items to Iraq. Oh no, it must be that America wants a piece of land in Germany and the Germans are oh so bravely standing up to us. Naturally, this denying the evil Americans a piece of ground has made the majority of the entire population of the United States mad at Germany.

With this, you lie. You are actively avoiding facts. You try to pick an inconsequential event to cast Germany in a noble light while villifying America. Americans (collectively - there may be some that do) do not passionatly care about a piece of ground in Germany, and in fact would probably speak out against our goverment if it became known they would destroy a piece of the Holocaust Park for something as useless as a mere embassy. We do care when we shed blood to free a country, spend vast amounts to rebuild that country, guard that country from an aggressor, give that country its governance back freely, and then have that country stab us in the back by not only defending a vile tyranny, but actively supporting it. There is the real root of our anger with Germany.

The real danger, that you avoid speaking of, with modern Germany, is that their socialistic economy is failing, bringing them closer to the events that spawned the Nazis. This is especially concerning in light of their recent behavior, which make me worry that they could spawn another evil reign like Hitler.

During the Nazi reign in Europe, Nazis felt justified in killing every other group because they felt they were superior to the other races and thus these 'lesser races' could be exterminated. You then try to equate this action with Israel's defense of her borders and the United State's destruction of the Taliban terrorist haven and terror supporter Saddam. You wrap this moral equivilence up with a resounding "we should all just get along" and try to say that WE should change to make the terrorists happy and they, in their infinite wisdom and kindness, will put down the bombs and poisons and let us live.

You are already defeated by the terrorists. That's probably an idea that a lot of us don't understand. You are willing to give up everything - your life, control of your destiny, everything - to make a terrorist happy because no he can mold the world to his liking. You instantly assume that the deaths and mangled survivors are such a terrible price that it is worth complete surrender. Only by 'understanding' their positions and thus justify doing nothing to stop them is the way to keep safe.

Your mindset is exactly what the terrorists want - you will give up everything to feel safe.

If these terrorists were truly enlightened people who only stoop to blowing up women and children with bombs while hiding behind civilians because they really just don't have time from making the world a better place your mindset might (and I only say might) be mildly understandable. Have you ever looked at the "enlightened" people that you are saying should run the world? They do not want to raise the world up - they want to drag everyone else down, and don't care that they are doing so, as long as everyone else is worse off than them.

The terrorists, not the Israelis have decided that a 'lesser race' is need of extermination. The terrorists, not America, stoops to killing the helpless as a primary way of fighting. The terrorists, not the Israelis, are uncaring of civilian casualties. The terrorists are willing to destroy everything, as long as they have the smug self-satisfaction that everyone else is worse off than themselves. And you want to give up to these people. You put the Israelis in a evil light because they don't try to 'understand' the people that grow up from birth and are fed a endless stream of hatred against the Israelis. Naturally, the Israelis must change, because the Arabs hating the Israelis is just a reaction to the Israelis. Nothing is expected of the Arabs - it's all the Israeli's fault.

How do you avoid that there is an upswing in bombings when the Israelis attempt to ease off and give the Palestinians anything? Oh - it's all a 'reaction' to the last period of Israel defending herself. The fact that the bombings ALWAYS continue until the next period of the Israelis cracking down is just a coincidence - the Palestinians were just about to give up bombing Israelis. You have to be seriously self-deluded to believe that. The bombings are resulting because the Palestinians find it easier to carry them off. Thus, the Palestinians are responsible for the Israelis cracking down - that is the only way Israel can defend herself. If the Palestenians did not bomb/rocket/murder Israelis, then Israel would have been long gone from the West Bank. Despite that the Palestinians always reward Israel's withdrawals with violence and more violence, you want to say that Israel should give more freedoms to the Palestinians to avoid deaths. you are avoiding history and facts.

The world's communications will not cause people to stop envying and hating others. Justice may have not ever come out of the barrel of a gun, but it sure as heck had a gun in its holster. The only way that the radical Islamists will not feel 'justified' in killing non-Islamists is if the rest of the world is either dead or enslaved to them. The other way that they will give that up is if they realize, deep down, that starting their conquest will result in humiliating defeat.

Before you start with 'if they only would talk', please answer the earlier poster's question: What would happen if the Israelis one fine morning, destroyed all of their weapons and announced that to the world?

The answer is obvious, and also one you do not want to face: The Arabs would commit a second Holocaust, this time far more complete, upon the land that would no longer be called Israel. The whole time we would have a chorus of people like you would be standing on the sidelines, wailing 'after this, surely they will be appeased'. Very similar to Europe's reaction to Nazi Germany when Hitler demanded Czechoslovakia. And once done, the Arab nations would look toward Europe or Africa as their next conquest. And each time, the chorus would sing the same tune, until either the world was in ruins at the feet of the Islamists or if enough people said 'enough', stood up, shut you up, and then waged war upon the enemy.

Now, answer the reverse: What would happen if the Arab nations destroyed their arms and announced that to Israel? You seem to imply that the dastardly Israelis would instantly invade. You know that they would not. If Israel was an imperialistic nation, they would have taken far more land than they have. In each war, they have captured land that would make another attack on Israel more difficult, and have even given back captured land for peace. The current demands upon Israel are for grounds that are ideal for launching attacks from, and in fact were used to launch sneak attacks upon Israel. The Arabs have lost their right to those grounds, not only by plain conquest, but by the ample evidence that they will use them to attack from. To propose that Israel give a weapon back to her enemies after it has been used before is idiotic.

Before we hear the ‘you sound like a Nazi’ refrain, look back and read again. I do not advocate a war of conquest, nor of unrestricted aggression. If you try to claim that holding onto our beliefs and having the willingness and ability to defend ourselves is the same a war of aggression against those that would destroy us, you say a lot more to the mindset of our attackers than us

This insane idea that a pacifistic nation will suddenly make its hostile enemies start a dialogue is exactly that - insane. The Arab nations around Israel attacked when they thought she was weak, much less helpless. Your mindset will cause there to be millions upon millions of deaths, because those who would perpetrate this evil are succored and let grow strong by those who would appease them out of fear. Only by standing strong against them and making it plain that they cannot succeed by their murderous ways will cause them to change and seek peaceful coexistence.

I refuse to bow my head and surrender my country and ideals because I am afraid of a cowardly enemy attacking my back. If we sacrifice our ideals in order to appease and 'understand' those that would attack us, we have destroyed ourselves. Only because our willingness to defend ourselves and our beliefs will others be willing to negotiate with us.

Posted by: xCavTrooper at July 6, 2003 10:10 PM

Lioness, you said "The U.S. feels "justified" in massacring Afghanis and Iraqis because of what we've suffered at the hands of Israeli extremists."

This exposes you as a "9/11 was done by Mossad" conspiracy kook, and marks you as a person that the rest of us may ignore. You have nothing. FOAD.

Posted by: Mike Zeares at July 6, 2003 10:25 PM

Goodness, such a placing of words in my mouth! It's too late at night to start in on all your erroneous assumptions, but you can begin by going back and actually rereading what I said. The gap between what I wrote and what you inferred is vast -- and highly educational for me.

Posted by: Lioness at July 6, 2003 11:57 PM

"This exposes you as a "9/11 was done by Mossad" conspiracy kook"

After Bin Laden all but sent out engraved invitations? Puh-leeze. I'll grant you that Mossad has pulled some incredibly arrogant and stupid shit in the past, but they're off the hook this time. I meant Islamist extremists; thank you for catching that. Not that the U.S. sailors on board the Cole didn't suffer from the hands of Israelis, but after the U.S. Army earned the title, "The Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight" during the Iraqi invation by killing more allies than Iraqi soldiers, such deplorable events have become all too common.

Posted by: Lioness at July 7, 2003 12:45 AM

The US Army killed thousands of Iraqi soldiers. It did not kill thousands of Allied soldiers. You are a complete idiot. Q.E.D.

Posted by: Mike Zeares at July 7, 2003 09:25 AM

You've just been reading U.S. papers? Check out the BBC, The Guardian and the Times of London. The U.S. has taken out as many British soldiers as they have Iraqis in "friendly fire" incidents. Then there's the Australian unit they attacked and the Russian embassy evacuation convoy they bombed and took out Allied CIVILIANS as well as well as soldiers. That's the real reason the British public is up in arms and demanding British troops pull out. And that doesn't include the seven journalists killed by U.S. soldiers! I've always thought of the U.S. military as a highly competant force occassionally in the hands of nincompoops, but I've had to seriously reconsider after this fiasco.

Posted by: Lioness at July 7, 2003 12:45 PM

(Just for a bit of "Baiting the Obvious Idiot")
Lioness, I give up. How many Brits did US soldiers kill in "friendly fire" incidents?
How many Iraqi soldiers did they kill?
I just want to compare your numbers.
BTW, the Guardian is a joke as a tabloid, much less a newspaper.
Also, on a more personal note...
Do you have any clue that you're an idiot?
Or are you french?

Posted by: Okie Dokie at July 8, 2003 01:59 AM

Lioness (everyone else is complaining about you, I may as well join in) - a golden rule about the Holocaust, in its horror, seen so easily from just the two photos above, is that it can never be used as a comparison to any other event in our history. Any comparison is a disgrace to its millions of victims.

Other words should also not be used and misused. Your tirade of "massacres" above falls into this trap. I could tell your cutting and pasting made you cite Israelis for bringing on Afganistan and Iraq, but why? Becuase you were using "massacre" to describe all types of events and so belittling the term as well. The Coalition Forces were fighting a war as best they could, not massacring Iraqis and Afghanis. Yes, so many innocent people were killed during the war, but the armies were not on a campaign of massacre.

Spraying a bus full of children, setting off a bomb in a pizza parlor, entering a home and spraying it with bullets, including into sleeping five year old girls in their beds - this to me sounds like massacres. Not gun battles. Not Israeli soldiers going door to door looking for wanted members of terrorist organizations.

It is terrible that two peace activists were killed during fighting in different incidents on the West Bank. But how many solidiers have also been killed there? And Palestinian fighters? They were in a battle zone, not being massacred.

Let's not get lose with these words, otherwise someone may accuse you of being against Israel itself.

Posted by: Janet at July 8, 2003 10:10 AM

Isn't it slightly peculiar to see that the namecalling started as soon as someone who claims to be Israeli or Jewish feels slighted?
As far as Israelis being innocent of all charges let's not forget The Jonathan Pollard scandal, USS Liberty, the "Art Students" and the issue with the "dancing Israelis" during 9/11 to name a few.
All this is swept under the carpet while you chant "never forget" to justify Israelis getting a clean slate.

FBI even published a report stating that the Mossad is superb in masquerading as Arabs while committing their terrorism.

But hey, I'll just be called an Anti-Semite for saying any of this. Some people will never get the point.

Posted by: retard at July 8, 2003 11:09 AM


This is very interesting. Thank you for posting these.

Would you please scan the notations on the backs of the photos as well? I would be interested in seeing them.

Posted by: Some Guy at July 8, 2003 12:23 PM

Seeing pictures like this is sickening, but it's necessary to understand evil. Not "Hollywood" evil, dumbed down to make sure that even the short-attention-span knuckledraggers that our modern pop culture keeps producing can understand without foonotes and subtitles, but pure real-world evil that wakes you up in a cold sweat late at night. Evil like the Holocaust should make us ALL pray for forgiveness just because we share a few chromosome pairs with the perpetrators.

As far as comparing the Holocaust to the modern actions of the American Armed Forces and the Israelis, that's just below contempt, IMHO. Did the European Jews (and homosexuals, gypsies, Catholic Priests, Communists, etc - don't want to leave any of the oppressed out here) leave their homes voluntarily to go to Auschwitz? Did the Nazi's offer to let them return to their land in exchange for a promise of peace? Did the Nazi's fix the water treatment plants and hospitals of the countries they invaded? Did the Nazi's treat their victims with dignity? Nope, on all counts.

If you want to play "compare the atrocity" with the Nazi's, at least use appropriate regimes for comparison. Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin come to mind.

Posted by: CYlent Bob at July 8, 2003 08:08 PM

CYlent Bob: "compare the atrocities" doesn't really apply here. The Israelis are playing on peoplpe mixing them up with Jews and then they use the holocaust to justify every atrocity they commit. Pol Pot/Mao/Stalin were certainly up there on the list, but they weren't using the Israeli gambit of "us poor jews have been mistreated for so long" and then taking whatever they want. Sadly we let them get away with anything because as soon as someone says something negative they're anti-semites which paints an ugly picture. Come to think of it Palestinians are Semites too, so that would make Israelis among the most antisemitic folks around!

A nuke transforming that part of the world to glass would prevent more terrorism than putting forces in Afghanistan and Syria.

Posted by: retard at July 9, 2003 11:48 AM

When will the world relise the danger of Islam and its worship of the idol alla are a threat to the civilized world of Jewish people, there country as given to them by G-d and also the non-moslum world that every practicing moslum has determined to eliminate under the edict of this false god.
The Judeo-Christian world should come to the aid of Israel and prevent another holacost by helping them secure their entire land in the middle-east.
It is true that only Yeshua the Prince-of-Peace is the answer to the worlds problems.
May His kingdom come and His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

Posted by: Bob Boynton at January 4, 2004 09:40 AM

we will never forget the holocaust or adolf hitler

Posted by: mariah at January 26, 2004 07:13 PM

Hitler is the biggest jerk I can ever imagine, that's an understatement. What kind of **** would do that, I would have killed him the first chance I got, even if it meant my death.

Posted by: me^2 at February 22, 2004 02:26 PM

hitler is a fuking idiot!! he is the most evil son of a bitch thats eva lived!! if anyone thinks this man is great then they really need their head checked!!

Posted by: somaly at March 5, 2004 12:07 AM

umm SOMALY who eva you are, i so disagree with you, hitler was one god dam sexy beast mmm...luved his chaplin moustache i think u are the one who needs the head check luv...

Posted by: nicole at March 5, 2004 12:10 AM

Sue Sapir-Niederer needs this reminder. She is the Jewish mother who wore the t-shirt “President Bush you killed my son” at the political rally where Laura Bush was speaking in New Jersey.

Posted by: Prize at September 19, 2004 04:23 AM

Sue Sapir-Niederer needs this reminder. She is the Jewish mother who wore the t-shirt “President Bush you killed my son” at the political rally where Laura Bush was speaking in New Jersey.

Posted by: Prize at September 19, 2004 04:25 AM

I am not jewish but thank god im not german
either the jewish people are gods people
and I really hope hitler is extra crispy
i hope he pays for each and every life he
distroyed this is truley the work of evil.

Posted by: angelia at April 11, 2005 05:15 PM
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